Naty - die grüne Windelrevolution aus Schweden [EN] | #Unternehmensführung 🧠

00:00:00: Hello and a warm welcome to another deep dive podcast from the guitar compact.

00:00:12: My name is Jakar Tvarek, and today actually I think i recorded like two hundred fifty podcasts.

00:00:16: And this was the first one that I record in Sweden!

00:00:18: Even though it's my very first time to cover a broad, so really an interesting premiere for me as well... Interesting

00:00:23: yeah!

00:00:24: ...and obviously I would love to start introducing you at first.

00:00:26: Who are you?

00:00:27: What do we have here?

00:00:27: Marleen Sandberg.

00:00:28: It's my name.

00:00:29: I'm the founder & CEO of NETI.

00:00:31: I started for twenty five years.

00:00:33: In May its twenty-five years.

00:00:35: what exactly is NATI ?

00:00:36: What´s your vision on?

00:00:37: how does it work?

00:00:38: How did I imagine NATI today?

00:00:41: as a company.

00:00:41: Yeah,

00:00:42: the reason why I started it was that i had my second child and I was reading morning newspaper about The fact that diapers were produced by oil And not degree in landfills which was then the system Which is used in Sweden...and I was getting upset.. ..And feeling this is not feeling good to throw all these extreme volume out every day!

00:01:04: And I started looking at yellow pages.

00:01:07: There are no online those days.

00:01:09: Telephone book was trying to find producer and I couldn't find any producer because the industry was only one large producer.

00:01:17: And then started also investigate if there is biomaterial or compostable material that i can use in diaper, of this kind of material.

00:01:29: And these is volume-driven industry, but there was not any available material for diaper production because diaper production is extremely high speed and you need to secure the machines made oil-based plastic, and it is a low margin industry.

00:01:47: You need to have low waste high efficiency.

00:01:49: so I was lucky enough that i had my own small old factory.

00:01:55: So I did R&D on this factory On these all technology And I think I spent one and half year To make sure we could get his film in place Which is the leakage barrier?

00:02:07: And I did it in collaboration with an Italian company.

00:02:11: It was a female who was the CEO for that company, and she still is today.

00:02:17: And I was more or less just using my stomach feeling, who will be the long-term player in this industry?

00:02:25: Who would win it.

00:02:26: She was fast and quick really engaged.

00:02:30: so then i decided to work with them.

00:02:32: We were doing all these R&D together.

00:02:36: that took us at least one and a half two years.

00:02:39: In The Machine we had Sears problem before we could process the film.

00:02:46: Even if I was twenty-five years before the market was ready, it was to make products which is good for health of a baby and good for the planet.

00:02:55: Because we had big trend in Sweden those days that there were lots environmental discussions on newspapers in magazines And when i started reading it was like putting new egg glasses because they have lifestyle I felt, okay.

00:03:16: I can't continue like

00:03:17: this.".

00:03:18: This is crazy!

00:03:19: Really it's changed totally your way on how you buy products and behave.

00:03:25: but what i also saw was that the industry is extremely slow.

00:03:29: It has a really large corporation who lobby against them.

00:03:34: Why?

00:03:34: They have lots of profits And its not political system.

00:03:38: Who drive globally consumption?

00:03:40: Is companies driving their consumptions for their products.

00:03:45: I mean, maybe we could give all those listeners who do not have children or are pregnant right now given idea about how many diapers a child uses anyway and how much of it consists of oil because my daughter is one by now And i think she uses like five diapers per day which has reduced quite a bit yeah?

00:04:03: I guess babies start at seven to nine diapers a day and slows down the older they get.

00:04:09: but you're the ones with better numbers.

00:04:10: Yeah!

00:04:11: We had the number.

00:04:11: so... You were right industry that you use four point three diaper in average.

00:04:17: A normal diaper I would say that ninety percent, ninety-five percent of the industry is using eighty seven percent plastic in diapers.

00:04:27: so it's a really oil based industry and as well.

00:04:31: if we go look into the wipes industry its an industrial magazine where i just got an article from them were they saying that ninety is made of oil plastic.

00:04:45: which people don't understand.

00:04:46: So the majority of all wipes is also plastic, like

00:04:49: these wet wipes you used to clean?

00:04:51: The baby?

00:04:51: yeah they are made of oil plastic and if we take all the fem care it's also made of plastic oil.

00:04:57: I'm struggling to understand why there's not anybody who was talking about this segment.

00:05:03: People tend to talk about plastic bags carry bags from their retailer.

00:05:09: but If You Take a Baby Consumption Of Diapers But a small percent of the population who then counts for three percent on waste in country.

00:05:21: Three percent?

00:05:22: Three

00:05:22: percent is the babies' creating, so if it would take an individual product and say I'm going to take one that has highest rates based per capita... ...I'd say diaper should be the one you should solve first or not.

00:05:36: And also when i started this company my objective was change all material stable and renewable because in any way when you handle it the waste system, You get a better effect for environment.

00:05:51: And also I think that if we take Swedish Environmental Foundation which is an organization started over hundred years ago they are part of Friends Of The Earth's network... ...and have been working with them since i've started this company.

00:06:08: If u take products today its another topic on the headline and will be massive market in the future, I think.

00:06:17: It's not only what kind of material you use it is also what kind chemically used when you produce products.

00:06:24: They did a large investigation in Sweden of baby wipes and toiletry lines And they checked.

00:06:30: sixty-seven out of them was fifty four containing hormone effective and cancery and chemicals.

00:06:37: So that´s another topic which i was upset about reading this and I was not actually planning to do the other lines.

00:06:47: at all when I started.

00:06:48: But, when i saw this... ...I felt oh no!

00:06:51: I need to do all these lines and make sure that they have a clean product.

00:06:55: I mean clean for the environment, clean for babies because also now we've got lots of discussion in Europe about recycling.

00:07:02: but if you start to recycle material which contains hormone-affective cancer and chemical is it good that you use this product ten times?

00:07:11: And why should you use

00:07:13: it?!

00:07:13: because you need to limit the damage.

00:07:15: I mean, my way of getting like deeper in contact with your products and your company was...I recorded a podcast saying how i reduce plastic!

00:07:23: I said hey..i'm using soap instead of shampoo and toothbrush made from bamboo and all that stuff.

00:07:28: And then basically our German country manager came to me and say Hey we're also on this industry.

00:07:33: would you like talk about stuff?

00:07:34: What they did is tested their product

00:07:36: first

00:07:37: held these shampoos and lotions at hand.

00:07:40: The funny moment it says no PEG know this, no that.

00:07:43: No plastics etc.

00:07:44: and like half of the names written on it which are not inside a product I didn't even know!

00:07:49: Like there were chemicals written on them Which i did'nt even know.

00:07:52: And i would say im not typical guy going to drugstore Grabbing the biggest brand.

00:07:57: Im really taking all these stuff out Checking all the insides Really realizing theres alot of stuff like toothpaste for instance.

00:08:03: You cant hardly use it Do you

00:08:04: can't use?

00:08:05: I mean i'm buying natural organic brands.

00:08:08: It's lotto products which is made by human people I would say.

00:08:12: You should have a warning text, don't use it for children!

00:08:16: So the deeper you dive into this topic... ...you come to realize that they didn´t even know about these wipes by the way?

00:08:21: No They feel like

00:08:23: cotton and that's the sanction from the majority of people.

00:08:27: good product.

00:08:28: Or my wife comes and says, hey Pampers has this new feature.

00:08:31: there's a line on it.

00:08:32: when it turns yellow you can see that the diaper is full with urine and just change it right?

00:08:36: I say okay how do they do it?

00:08:37: yeah by chemicals.

00:08:38: ok what kind of chemicals?

00:08:39: i don't know.

00:08:40: no exactly

00:08:41: start Exactly!

00:08:42: And also for example to have perfume in baby products Is a big big NO because perfume is a lot of chemicals.

00:08:50: When I was starting to become green for twenty five years ago started reading about perfume.

00:08:56: What is perfume?

00:08:57: I haven't used perfume on twenty-five years.

00:08:59: But how do you make your stuff then to smell nicely?

00:09:01: It's not smelling nicely, it's smelling what is.

00:09:05: We don't add perfume!

00:09:06: So the smell is natural and artificial... No

00:09:08: yeah i know its a lot of brands also in diapers who are adding perfumes.

00:09:13: If you ask Swedish Environmental Foundation which have been my guideline since they started this company What does their regulation mean?

00:09:20: if we produce baby products below three years, never use perfume.

00:09:25: I don't think it's any product.

00:09:27: if i call a baby a product who smells better than a baby.

00:09:31: so why should you use perfume on the baby?

00:09:35: beautiful smell in itself.

00:09:37: Until they fill their diapers, yeah?

00:09:39: Yeah

00:09:39: but still it's natural!

00:09:42: But what I would still love to know is where did this drive come from...I mean you are a lawyer and an entrepreneur always has to be a lawyer in a way.

00:09:49: It comes from the DNA.

00:09:51: i think..i'm a person who wants to change everything.

00:09:55: since i was small ..i started at football club for girls when i was maybe eleven years old university, I started a lawyer firm.

00:10:07: I always have started things and that kind of person.

00:10:10: And i can see my mother.

00:10:11: when she was fifty-eight years old She started the school and had forty teachers and four hundred children.

00:10:21: So it's in her blood.

00:10:22: It is my DNA!

00:10:24: I always look for products.

00:10:26: its annoying because if you go out on restaurants or coffee shop whatever your going to look at product then thinking This is not well done, and this restaurant isn't in the proper way.

00:10:38: You could change it like that... That's a habit!

00:10:42: The entrepreneurs you see going around the world seeing challenges right?

00:10:46: Seeing challenges yeah I mean just sitting on an flight was in Amsterdam yesterday.

00:10:50: And when i'm sitting there thinking why don't they have all day When you get your sandwich and coffee Why he's not everything made in compostable material.

00:11:00: And why don't I get a little bit of small, compost-able bag and throw it where my coat can hang?

00:11:08: Why aren´t they doing

00:11:10: this?

00:11:10: I do not understand why the EU for instance is allowing all these materials that are not properly investigated on.

00:11:18: It's maybe two percent more chemicals controlled by the EU than power.

00:11:24: They don't have the team in place to do it.

00:11:27: If you read about this Swedish Environment Foundation, that's what they're saying... ...they are so behind it!

00:11:32: I mean there had one chemical which they saw- The bird watchers saw their first sign and they saw it globally.

00:11:39: And this was maybe for twenty years ago?

00:11:41: Because they saw that the eggs of the birds were crashing.

00:11:45: Then they found the same chemicals in all eggs globally.

00:11:49: So i mean its a global chemical going up with alarm globally about this chemical we need.

00:11:56: We draw the chemicals, and when I'm talking to a team in The Swedish Environmental Foundation they say yes that chemical was prohibited but what's happening within the chemical industry is you have a chemical which says it's called this But its changing small molecule.

00:12:12: And then there are the next one Which is really similar to the prohibited.

00:12:16: They can't catch-up on these political systems.

00:12:19: I mean, when I was young FCKW... ...was the big topic right?

00:12:23: Fluorocloacol and Wasserstoff because it ruins the atmosphere.

00:12:26: And how long did they take to get rid of this stuff out of these spray cans

00:12:29: etc.?

00:12:30: But coming back to Nati you said that you invested like one point five years of research at least in this leakage barrier.

00:12:36: What happens then?

00:12:37: How do you make out of passion or frustration seeing challenges a company?

00:12:42: Yeah!

00:12:42: I was launching here in Sweden To start with.

00:12:45: Then we had the tremendous problem With the back sheet even when we started production, I mean commercial production.

00:12:52: And we have been learning how to fly.

00:12:55: We are like a cat who has ten lives because in the beginning... ...we was attacked by a large producer and think they did too well.

00:13:04: So legally.. ..we had this Swedish environmental foundation.

00:13:07: Who were having the certification?

00:13:10: They really good certification Because it's lots of confusion When you talk about certifications.

00:13:16: Their certification is good milieu of all.

00:13:19: So what they had as a guideline is that you should use as much as possible natural renewable material, and it was hard to get because you needed more than fifty percent of the product.

00:13:30: so we have that certification.

00:13:32: but we were also attacked by big multinational company.

00:13:36: I was spending time for school that there was legal area But what he was achieving?

00:13:41: That this was lobbing in by an laboratory who has also driven by industry.

00:13:47: the index was controlling it.

00:13:48: So this was on purpose, and then it was coming out in the media... ...and we got really bad score on that analyze because we had a channel these days.. ..in the absorbent core!

00:13:59: And they were cutting-out their ring like this.... ....and than I was putting in three hundred millilitre water..... .....and there was measuring how much was in the lid then.

00:14:08: Because of the fact that we have the channel ,it's been coming a lot at the bottom.

00:14:12: And that was the purpose.

00:14:13: The other one had all their absorbent core in its ring, so there were no water.

00:14:19: And I said to the magazine, but we have a new technology.

00:14:22: You can't test it in the same way as a standard diaper.

00:14:25: But then the damage was done and they say we can correct your article.

00:14:29: But that's at The Damage is Done and our sales was going like down week by week per week!

00:14:34: Then i was invited To an exhibition In UK and then used my time in That Exhibition to send boxes to big UK retailer?

00:14:45: We were lucky enough to get a deal with one of major retailer and this was already year two thousand.

00:14:50: And at that time I was checking with the legal department.

00:14:55: we had a joint collaboration, if i do it jointly because they were number ten in Europe then will not attack them this multinational company.

00:15:09: So that was my way on surviving without having a new attack from the big multinational companies, so then I have followed that route.

00:15:19: when i've launched in every market and doing it below the radar make sure to get partner in each country who protect me because otherwise we will not sit here.

00:15:31: But what is the incentive for a retailer to protect one brand?

00:15:34: As far as I learned, they always take their shelf space.

00:15:37: Give it to a product and if it sells... ...they continue buying.

00:15:41: and if doesn't then don't!

00:15:42: The reason why we did this was because It's new concept with nice design Different technology.

00:15:48: We had a channel in the diaper A unique product And when made our deal They launched it.

00:15:53: They have time to launch it.

00:15:55: Then we do that with PR and everything And could drive an incremental sales to them store.

00:16:00: they show that it was point of difference, a different product and the retailer like to have a point-of-difference.

00:16:07: I mean the retail industry is real commodity industry so all sell this same type or product.

00:16:14: And if you want as soon get your children You are the core for them because They know that you will stay loyal with them For long time and we probably shop there for fifteen years

00:16:29: year, the amount of new brands and innovations was rather low compared to today.

00:16:34: Ah, okay.

00:16:35: That's smart but how did you finance all this?

00:16:37: I mean...

00:16:37: In the beginning i needed to take in equity and then forced to lower my share And after maybe it was taking us eight years or something To run with a break-even Or low profit.

00:16:51: Then when seeing that is going to work out You can see that could continue building The company Because of investors wanted to have the return on investment, which is the rule of their market.

00:17:08: And they wanted me also trying to reduce how do you say extremely expensive material we was using because it started coming out some other brands in the market that were coloring the bag green or saying eco and didn't use any of these expensive materials.

00:17:27: And my investor was saying, why do you need to be so ethical?

00:17:31: Why can't your use like them and just make the package in green or put echo on.

00:17:36: Then what I said with the investors if they want play that ball game then i will quit.

00:17:41: You take some other people but don´t wanna stay at this company because im building a long term brand In life business relation whatever The truth is always catching peoples in the end with your end consumer and I believe that is going to get return in the long term.

00:18:02: And, i can see this happening because we have as a brand extremely high loyalty or high education people who are really curious, they're reading.

00:18:18: They investigate and this is a big trend the global trend.

00:18:22: we call it responsible consumer And I've been reading a lot of Boston Consulting Group reports and Bain reports.

00:18:30: This group of customers will change their landscape globally because we have a powerful element in the consumer, I think.

00:18:41: What did you do then?

00:18:41: Like what did you with these investors who said...

00:18:44: Yeah!

00:18:44: What i did on the long end was that I was borrowing money and taking super high risk.

00:18:50: We were borrowing from our house And I was borrowed money to buy them out To get control of company Because I just had twenty two percent.

00:18:58: That's an extremely high-risk.

00:19:00: But I couldn't live with the fact we were having two separate ways of building a company.

00:19:06: And, and...I was not willing to do it!

00:19:08: Then I asked them can i buy you out?

00:19:10: This is the value.

00:19:11: We are agreeing about that value..and then I bought him out.

00:19:14: So let me get this straight.

00:19:15: You're a lawyer That reads an article in newspaper About plastic & oil in diapers.

00:19:20: Started diaper company Financed it with investors.

00:19:22: Then go all the risky part Like taking credits on your house etc.

00:19:26: Buy them out.

00:19:27: After twenty five years Your still into business.

00:19:29: It's really impressive, I would say.

00:19:31: Yeah it has been hard work but also fun!

00:19:34: But the mission is.

00:19:37: reading lots of articles about the entrepreneur... ...but if you have a vision and what your doing.. ..I always like people where they are heart and brain.

00:19:46: People who just do for financial reasons think that they're less successful when starting a company.

00:19:52: You need to have a mission in order to do so And our missions as well were saying If this wouldn't happen at all.

00:19:59: I can be extremely proud of myself when i'm sixty five.

00:20:03: and look at myself in the mirror, I've done something.

00:20:07: And that's also something which gives value to you as an individual.

00:20:12: Give us a feeling about diapers than what you produce.

00:20:14: You said that ninety five percent of the diapers being on market consist eighty seven percent of

00:20:21: oil.

00:20:22: What does this looks like for your diapers?

00:20:25: How much more expensive is it producing such eco-dipers?

00:20:28: I don't have prices with standard diaper but i'm guessing maybe fifty More expensive

00:20:34: only fifteen percent.

00:20:35: That's not much.

00:20:36: no, it's not match.

00:20:37: But you see the efficiency in this system and the prices In the system we're talking about a low margin product is a loss leader for old retail globally more or less because It says lost leaders who drive their traffic to the store.

00:20:52: in Sweden We have some lost leader that stifles And its they hand for Christmas?

00:21:01: Accepted to sell the product with extremely thin margin and as a small brand we need To give them a margin.

00:21:10: but they're big multinational.

00:21:11: don't give them A margin because they push With marketing.

00:21:15: so they have no other solution than to have this brand in their store Because otherwise, you will lose the traffic through the store.

00:21:22: So that's a mechanism of the industry.

00:21:25: Fifteen percent is a lot of, I mean money in this section.

00:21:31: And how we can have been able to survive because... We also give the retailer higher margin is that we've been structuring companies.

00:21:39: so there are not lots people here and really investing in technology always.

00:21:45: So even if it was small maybe seven years ago they invested in SAP system which normally large corporation uses.

00:21:55: We have EDI on forty five percent of all order transactions.

00:22:00: We had software wherever we can buy it.

00:22:02: instead people because now they are sitting in a country where you have high income, not low-income countries.

00:22:09: so that's why we need to have sufficient structure for competing and I think this has also given us the possibility to have these cost structures.

00:22:19: How many people work for Natti?

00:22:20: In total there is twenty two people for a broad maybe seven, so say forty people.

00:22:28: Roughly.

00:22:28: And how about production?

00:22:29: Do you produce on your own or...?

00:22:30: No,

00:22:31: we have subcontractors.

00:22:32: Okay

00:22:32: understood but coming back to the oil question is a naughty diaper totally free of plastic and no oil or is this impossible?

00:22:39: There's impossible today because of the cost structure.

00:22:42: So if I would change every material today then i will say The prices need to go up with maybe one two times.

00:22:49: Nobody will buy that diaper Because it's now We're talking about all the materials we've been using in the diapers all this material we have done R&D on.

00:22:58: There's not.

00:22:59: so I can go to the supplier and say, ''I want to buy these

00:23:02: materials.''.

00:23:03: They are not existing!

00:23:04: So... We're the innovator And All The Other Brand is just following us.

00:23:11: So they are trying to find out who's producing our material?

00:23:15: And i've been saying before Tesla said it.

00:23:18: then Apple said that we share it.

00:23:21: It's good because Probably then the material drop in price is more using and than we have.

00:23:26: more was using environmental friendly material.

00:23:28: And it's good for us, but for them earth an and for them.

00:23:32: so we always doing R&Ds.

00:23:34: So they last diaper We have launched now which has a message zero percent oil plastic on my skin.

00:23:41: That something that I've done over the past three years to complete It.

00:23:45: not easy because when we push this material into machines The materials behaving different Compatron oil based and the machine is made for oil-based material.

00:23:57: Just to get an idea, if you are a market leader on being eco when it comes to diapers... ...and non leaders have eighty seven percent of oil in their diapers.

00:24:05: what does the market leader have in percentage?

00:24:07: We have today between fifty one and fifty three percent plant-based material in our product.

00:24:12: And if you take the other brands, they are between maybe twenty two percent plant based and the maximum I've seen is may be twenty nine forty percent plant paste.

00:24:24: but we also haven't strategy to change.

00:24:28: I mean we have changed all of your products If You Take Away The Diaper Because All Of The Other Products That You Will Have Industrial Compost On They Are East to make in compostable material.

00:24:39: And the objective for a diaper is to use hundred percent plant-based or compostable materials, so what we're moving now which is a small tiny product, and I would say in twelve months we will be the first one globally who have an industrial compost size zero diaper.

00:24:59: And it'll be extremely expensive for us.

00:25:02: but we also want to show that market is possible.

00:25:05: if you buy...I mean i remember when you started with electrical cars.

00:25:09: Toyota will always be what you think about if you think about an electrical car.

00:25:15: And I think my consumer is the same, i always think... ...I want to buy this kind of product.. ..to help a company who take these steps!

00:25:23: I understand it costs and maybe its not perfect in beginning but they are also showing their way forward.

00:25:29: so im that kinda customer and then we will be first one with technology place.

00:25:39: The mission is have all products to become industrial compost.

00:25:45: Because if you look at the diaper, it's a perfect diaper for a compost because what we buy today is soil and then you take the soil from the animals and that soil is forty percent better than without the contribution which a diaper can give.

00:26:03: so by throwing away something can help us to grow tomatoes.

00:26:08: We get forty percent more tomato if we use that kind of soil, so we have a project.

00:26:13: I have an electronical compost machine here...I had one at home and i can throw away four or five days organic waste from my household into this electronical compound And after two hours it was just pure soil.

00:26:30: Okay!

00:26:30: I need to get all these.

00:26:31: You NEED TO GET ONE OF THESE!

00:26:34: And then we want to have a pocket in the bottom.

00:26:36: You'll have then compostable bags, and if you're living in an urban city which majority of our customers are doing... ...you can throw it into normal waste because there's always better for every kind of handling that the city might have within your society or take them away from someone who has a garden.

00:26:57: So make these things easy by simplifying their lives.

00:27:00: We've tested putting down five Carolina in that compost, and we have now the new wipes which they've started production on is having home compost certification.

00:27:12: So for me, I have never understood since the start of a company why when i go to grocery.

00:27:18: I buy four carry bags with food When I had my small children.

00:27:22: Why is not all made of compostable material?

00:27:26: Why it's not all packaging material made of home compostable materials?

00:27:30: because technical it could've been for twenty five years.

00:27:33: But why isn't that happening?

00:27:35: Because if I have them, my electronic compost... ...I just throw it and get soil.

00:27:40: Why do i need the

00:27:42: lorries?".

00:27:42: Let's speak about your products anyway.

00:27:44: You mentioned already you produce wipes, female hygiene articles.

00:27:49: What is the product portfolio of Natty looking like?

00:27:51: We have the diapers we have the pull-on pants for a little bit older children And we have six different lines of wipes depending on the needs of different markets.

00:28:02: breadspots is also hundred percent industrial compost.

00:28:06: We have also a toiletry line, which we have Ecosertone and then the bottle is made of renewable material.

00:28:14: I think they are the first one globally who has this feature.

00:28:17: so over all our packaging materials using in their product seventy seven percent it's made from renewable material.

00:28:24: .We had long tradition ,we have converted these before market was demanding if i say like that have some other smaller baby products which we're launching now like changing pads for the baby when you change your diapers and we will have a bibs, disposable bibs.

00:28:43: What is it?

00:28:43: Bibb

00:28:44: When You Feed Them

00:28:46: And

00:28:46: they will also be industrial home-composed certified.

00:28:50: I was about to ask you the packaging, if it is made of plastic anyway?

00:28:54: No!

00:28:54: It's not made out of plastic but sugar.

00:28:58: So basically this is recyclable.

00:28:59: as far as i understand then...

00:29:01: You can recycle it exactly.

00:29:03: Sugar can't be recycled

00:29:04: because that really a tough part at least from being customer.

00:29:09: As you said when buy a diaper and think my baby first in position five or six

00:29:14: consumer groups we have done.

00:29:16: That's how the people are reacting and I totally understand it, that would do the same.

00:29:20: That's like musloff, right?

00:29:21: Did you know this pyramid where he says there are different needs?

00:29:24: I have and then you need to fulfill the basics.

00:29:25: Yeah exactly!

00:29:26: And their performance is the key.

00:29:28: so you don't want go up overnight because you want to go green with a diaper.

00:29:32: You can do it yourself if you sacrifice or buy washing powder who maybe doesn't make your shirt as clean As normal?

00:29:41: powder but not the diaper.

00:29:43: The advertisement of famous diapers basically focuses on that Keeping your child dry one priority of a mother or father.

00:29:51: and then you add the intransparency on recycling.

00:29:54: I was always asked myself, how does Germany do this?

00:29:56: Like having a yellow bin where put in all the plastics and afterwards... How much have it is recycled?

00:30:01: And just recently we found out okay not that much.

00:30:04: yeah

00:30:04: exactly which product should use all these recyclable materials?

00:30:08: because It's limitation to be able to use it Because its bacteria and other stuff.

00:30:13: if you take the industry of recycling paper when started with that as we need Was the discussion, can you use it in a hygienic product?

00:30:22: No.

00:30:22: You can't use this.

00:30:23: It includes too much bacteria in it because maybe I have thrown where he had the magazine something which should not be there and then you can control that system.

00:30:33: So you need to have virgin fiber for a hygienic product.

00:30:37: And I think it's the same now also with plastic industry, if you imagine how much nasty chemical is in plastic and you recycle them time after time who wants to use this recycled plastic?

00:30:50: Especially when thinking about products where they can say okay i don't really carry this nasty chemical but we know that retail will stop selling carrier bags.

00:31:02: I mean, we have now in Paris hundred ninety six countries signed off that be going to stop using fossil oil plastic.

00:31:10: Which countries are you shipping too by the way?

00:31:12: We're

00:31:12: selling to fifteen countries.

00:31:14: You say Australia, France Italy Belgium and Holland Finland Denmark a little bit in Sweden Super small volume Korea Wow

00:31:26: super exotic.

00:31:28: The income is very high And the demand for green products also high

00:31:32: right?

00:31:32: Also I think it's not so much green aspect as the health aspect Because our product did check Femka product in.

00:31:42: Korea, and we was one of the brand they checked.

00:31:45: And actually when this was happening all our stock in all countries Was just out-of-stock because Korean people bought their brands.

00:31:53: It's shipped over to Korea.

00:31:55: They investigated a chemical in the farm care products and found lot of nasty chemicals In big brands.

00:32:03: So these small brands were getting from three percent smoker share upto forty percent in couple weeks.

00:32:11: Then you can talk about the demand.

00:32:13: And it was mostly this chemical aspect, why we were getting so popular.

00:32:17: more than environmental aspects?

00:32:19: I remember that two big fashion companies in Germany, Brands for Friends and Zalando who both started really early to sell in South Korea because of these guys asking for luxury or health aspects... How

00:32:31: do say control income goods is most complicated control i ever have seen since starting company.

00:32:38: but think its extreme smart over country to do like that.

00:32:42: But it must feel strange to you guys, To have only like little sales in Sweden I guess due this campaign You mentioned at the very beginning of our podcast.

00:32:50: Yeah i trust that was destroying the business In sweden.

00:32:52: Attentive to see positive.

00:32:54: when problem is coming It always ends up with something positive.

00:32:58: Because i learned a lesson And then we started on The big market Like UK.

00:33:04: I know how to do it and I Was protected by my friends in Sainsbury Who launched it.

00:33:10: If would've done it in UK Okay, I would have then destroyed it forever.

00:33:15: So Sweden was a much smaller market.

00:33:17: so even if i was attacked by the big multinationals

00:33:22: It's better to fail early in small

00:33:25: markets than bigger markets.

00:33:28: How do you handle operations like Australia?

00:33:30: America and South Korea that is across two oceans at least.

00:33:33: We

00:33:34: had seven warehouses or eight we may be having now And think we handled really well because of all this technology.

00:33:42: We have the EDI, we even have an EDI set up with a warehouse in Korea.

00:33:47: And it's not any easy operation to setup an EDA in Korea.

00:33:51: I promise you The language is also barrier that sometimes... ...we have problems understanding each other in English

00:33:59: But like your own warehouse?

00:34:01: No

00:34:01: no its always for party!

00:34:03: We just rent us into our house and never have our own warehouses.

00:34:08: But this is interesting, like I guess many companies that listen now are interested in how do i manage to have a twenty people company selling to fifteen countries producing and all the stuff with operations such low amount of prices?

00:34:21: Yeah if we would not have the SAP system which has good systems to incorporate with EDI for example We had forty five percent on the transaction just flowing through the system without any people handling it.

00:34:36: We could not have that, we just would be maybe on the order of ten people.

00:34:41: But is it really SAP?

00:34:42: That helps you because in Germany a leader has just dumped five hundred million euros for working at work!

00:34:48: No but I think if you need solid system where you can integrate it... and SAP is a big system.

00:34:56: It's lots of large corporations who have made integration with EDI, if I would use the smallest Swedish system which i had when it started... ...I couldn't have done the integration in that way.

00:35:07: But you mentioned that this market is low on margin.

00:35:10: And if your using such technologies and such big companies, it basically lowers your margin as well right?

00:35:16: Yeah

00:35:16: but in the long end I think when we get even more volume will return on investment because we don't need to be more people.

00:35:23: We did the same analysis.

00:35:25: where now was sourcing web platform.

00:35:28: i had Magento before... ...and could see what's going to continue with Magento.. ..I needed a developer who would have technical part.

00:35:38: And then we were choosing CloudSolution, which is Salesforce.

00:35:42: Then I don't need any technical people programmer here because it's a cloud solution with thousands of companies who are using it as big companies like Adidas and that also kind the way we have gone.

00:35:57: It's an extremely expensive solution for us as small company but in long term i think you will get return on investment.

00:36:05: Okay understood now there one question up in my head.

00:36:08: I mean you are a company based in Sweden with twenty people that's selling to fifteen countries across two oceans producing diapers, three glues and fifty materials that are fifty-three percent plant base.

00:36:19: why exactly our bigger companies like the big manufacturers The Big Brands aren't at least trying to copy?

00:36:25: apart of this

00:36:26: because of the margin?

00:36:27: That is all

00:36:28: I promise you, everyone would put more high content if it was not so costly.

00:36:36: The greenwashing, I mean the pretend to have a green product.

00:36:42: We had tons of examples and we're doing all this.

00:36:45: C-Fort in Analyze.

00:36:47: really check out facts.

00:36:49: It's also retailer who launched Green Private Labour Product which is not green.

00:36:56: They are violating their own brand If they have private labour.

00:37:00: it isn't good business practice It's not ethical.

00:37:04: And from a customer perspective, how do I know that the brand is greenwashing?

00:37:07: That this isn't really eco?

00:37:09: No

00:37:10: you need to start for certification

00:37:12: Even though these certifications are rather weak.

00:37:14: Yeah like you said also in food industry You have tons of different certifications and you're also a brand who does their own labels.

00:37:21: So consumers think it is a green certification which even worse Because what all companies would do it in an unethical way for the good companies because people get suspicious and they lose their trust.

00:37:38: And there can be big negative pushback on the green industry, I think we had that in Sweden.

00:37:44: so People was losing the confidence Because it was a lot of greenwashing.

00:37:49: and then suddenly echo Was not on the topic anymore.

00:37:53: But then It was coming.

00:37:54: a new trend now The last couple years.

00:37:56: So Now its have started again.

00:37:58: but i Think is this certification?

00:38:00: you Have different certificates.

00:38:02: As an end consumer you need to read and understand what is this certification meaning?

00:38:07: So if we take the EU flower for diapers, You are allowing ninety six percent oil based plastics.

00:38:15: That means that every brand globally can have the EU Flower.

00:38:19: And is it really green?

00:38:20: no It's not really green.

00:38:22: And we have been many times discussing, should we apply for the EU flower?

00:38:27: Because according to investigations it is forty percent of them consumers who trust the EU Flower.

00:38:34: but then when saying that they are sitting and discussing this topic why do you need high investment on all these expensive raw materials?

00:38:45: We can then instead just put the air flower on packaging and improve our margin with at least fifteen percent.

00:38:51: And I mean, we have been producing a lot of millions of diapers.

00:38:55: as an owner who has invested heavily in environment that would say being ethical all the way and having high content because it's an ethical approach to this.

00:39:07: if you look for example Ecosat which is prominent well established certification they are saying certification rules, you need to change at least fifty percent of the ingredients.

00:39:19: To be defined and able to apply for eco-sat.

00:39:23: But how could EU flower have a low ninety six oil based plastic?

00:39:28: For me, it's just destroying them.

00:39:30: If you ask then I know what they will say Oh we would take step by step and let the industry adjust to their new.

00:39:38: But that can adjust already.

00:39:39: now They could have my recipe...they can have my raw material supply.

00:39:43: It can apply right now!

00:39:45: I give all of context Start buying.

00:39:47: i can help ya.

00:39:48: No its just commercial reason.

00:39:50: I'm sorry to say that.

00:39:51: It's few ethical companies and you have some in Germany, I think Velleda, Dr.

00:39:58: Hausbach... You have some ethical companies but it is hard to find

00:40:02: them.

00:40:02: How do you deal with frustration when your job?

00:40:04: The frustration goes out into the fact of trying better than what we are doing constantly And that's really, you feel really good when you see.

00:40:14: okay now we have accomplished the vibes.

00:40:17: We have eco-certs and home compost.

00:40:19: I mean The objective is to make the product perfect from consumer health aspect From environmental aspects.

00:40:27: That gives you frustration in getting it out as quickly as possible.

00:40:33: Who's

00:40:33: doing all this research?

00:40:34: for you by the way?

00:40:35: Actually,

00:40:36: it's me.

00:40:36: And also I have one passionate engineer in chemistry from the engineering school here at Kote Ho and he has been working on the BU field for maybe now twenty years.

00:40:47: You don't find so many people in that field?

00:40:50: It is so small!

00:40:51: If you take a total ton globally... ...I think the BU industry is zero point zero zero.

00:40:57: zero percent of the total market Is nothing is super small.

00:41:02: So to find the people who know this technology and all of these different raw materials, it's not easy.

00:41:07: you don't find them easily but I think that's the advantage we have in Sweden.

00:41:12: We were early adopters and January was even earlier adopter!

00:41:17: I mean...we're talking about one of the number-one products for fast moving consumer goods industry which are really high on sales And they need a lawyer in Stockholm to think about how could we do this differently.

00:41:29: This is pretty ironic, isn't it?

00:41:30: It's ironic!

00:41:31: It's crazy because I mean the big guys can easily do these things.

00:41:35: they have all their resources and tons of people.

00:41:40: Did you make it to the radar of these companies already?

00:41:43: Do you communicate with them, do they sue you...do you exchange...?

00:41:46: They're multinational.

00:41:47: Yeah!

00:41:47: They are watching me all the time every step I take.

00:41:50: How does this look like?

00:41:51: It could look different ways.

00:41:53: They manipulated this consumer magazine here in Sweden and threatened us to take us to court.

00:42:00: There have been various way..I remember i was winning an award at UK of a baby magazine And then we were only two people there.

00:42:09: And then when we was winning that award, like the best diaper in UK.

00:42:14: We were taking a screenshot of an article and publishing it on our home page!

00:42:20: Then magazine called me saying Malen you need to withdraw this one because... ...we have three guys from one of the multinationals coming into our office asking us if they want to take it off or otherwise.

00:42:36: we will sue them.

00:42:38: of course I take it away because i don't want any legal action.

00:42:42: So they have been around us over this twenty five years in different ways

00:42:47: and no change, perspective?

00:42:49: No change!

00:42:50: And saying we also had ten lives like a cat

00:42:53: doesn´t that mean you can have nine lives?

00:42:55: Maybe... In Sweden we say ten lives but its also hard.

00:43:01: when im speaking with retail is not only me.

00:43:04: It has happened to other brands as well.

00:43:06: I'm always asking myself, these guys have kids as well.

00:43:09: And whether they would love to put their babies in chemicals and oil?

00:43:13: Yeah

00:43:13: this is what i am thinking.

00:43:15: how could you be proud of yourself in the mirror when you know that actually your polluted people because why don't we put taxes on them and clean it up for two seconds?

00:43:32: if its cost money then they will solve quickly.

00:43:36: And

00:43:37: as we said already, parents that get kids and need diapers they usually think about how do I get my children dry?

00:43:42: Not How Do i Get My Children Dry and behave in a way That the environment is protected.

00:43:47: Yeah What are you doing ?

00:43:48: Do You Aim for these Parents that Are Already You Know Enlightened That Already Think In That Way.

00:43:52: Or Do You Try to Communicate Us To These Parents?

00:43:55: They Do not Think About This Aspect Already and try to have them understand

00:44:05: which source you read about.

00:44:07: But when I've been reading articles, it's kind of a part of the brain who needs to be developed.

00:44:13: So you can never train them to go to potty.

00:44:16: so i think its some stage where they can withdraw their diaper and it depends on your child that you move over into a potty training.

00:44:25: but what I should want say for end consumer is that You need change diapers frequently because thats something which people tend not understand.

00:44:36: understand, in the old days you changed nine diaper day because then had just a pulp.

00:44:42: Today we have polyacrylate inside the pulp which is keeping the wetness and liquid and they keep it up to forty times its own weight.

00:44:53: And that means all diaper is dry, you never see the wetness on your baby's skin but... On other hand if I ask a skin doctor what´s ON THE SKIN?

00:45:02: It´s not good!

00:45:03: The urine isn't good for the skin.

00:45:05: so you need to change diapers and thats why diaper rash have increased since you started using so few diapers a day So many time.

00:45:15: this is not the diaper Its the fact have been eating something which they don't are used to, tomato or whatever.

00:45:23: and it's also that you maybe haven't changed the diaper frequently enough.

00:45:27: But I was about to ask you when i bought my first eco-diper in Germany... ...I was reading about the guidelines for disposing it And in Germany its forbidden to throw diapers into different bins.

00:45:40: The brown ones were those where I put in disposable stuff.. ..and black ones Which quite a few people do not know is usually littered garbage that ends up in fire, so it's burnt-up

00:45:50: basically.

00:45:51: And diapers are not allowed to be put into this brown bin because of the poo-poo in it?

00:45:55: The vehicle aspect.

00:45:57: and what happens is they end up with black bins burned out afterwards as a big part of burnt plastic.

00:46:05: I understand you mean we have started an investigation on these concepts.

00:46:10: We've had chemistry engineers looking at this In Sweden.

00:46:14: there was long tradition years ago, a lot of people was building summer houses and then you don't have an enormous toilet system.

00:46:24: And that's already the technology which is here –and you burn it down to ashes!

00:46:29: That has already controlled them in this process process.

00:46:36: And what we have also checked now is that if you get an electronical home compost, so you just add some element into the soil and then you can control this soil...and THEN YOU CAN throw it out in a normal environment!

00:46:54: So we've already started to do these pre-study because that was one of our first topics needed for understanding.

00:47:01: If your baby may be eating penicillin penicillin to end up in the soil and that's possible to control it.

00:47:09: In the compost, by adding this additive into the compost what you can do also is changing degree because the compost process starts when you have forty degrees.

00:47:21: that's temperature you need.

00:47:23: But if would move it up to fifty, then kill all the bacteria but don't get a good soil.

00:47:29: So we have made this investigation.

00:47:31: We've seen as technical possible and haven't decided yet If going start making these electronical compost or not.

00:47:40: because also what I see is other products are quite easy.

00:47:46: they can be sent too without having too much from the legal aspect, because what we did also was an investigation just here in Sweden.

00:47:56: We saw that there were different regulations for applying to have a home compost and then it could be too tricky for small corporations like us... ...that maybe you had fifteen different regulations depending on where your livings.

00:48:12: so its maybes too complicated process.

00:48:16: But on the other hand, I think it's an opportunity.

00:48:19: There are many countries where you don't have all these regulations and there is no system for handling waste.

00:48:25: if we take India or China or Asia or Africa So then this could be a good system.

00:48:32: And If also start to think about what is flushed out in water?

00:48:37: Then...I've been eating penicillin!

00:48:39: I mean..there's not way that can control flushed out in the sea.

00:48:44: So it's two different question, I think is easy to control a compost bin and we have seen that we can't control it and get rid of any bacteria.

00:48:54: And then its upto the government say ok you use or not?

00:48:58: When i speak with parents they don´t even know about this fact.

00:49:02: Whenever im trying tell them why does make sense to buy eco-dipers?

00:49:06: It kind of failed.

00:49:08: because in Germany at least thats way your are not allowed diapers in the brown dustbin.

00:49:13: It isn't composable because of the poo-poo in it, so... Because of the bacteria etc.. So you need to basically throw into a black dustbin which means that it burns up.

00:49:21: and then these parents ask me why would I pay much more like twenty five percent more?

00:49:26: And I mean diapers get more expensive.

00:49:28: The bigger child gets right!

00:49:30: More price less diapers than package.

00:49:31: Why will i buy this if its burned anyway?

00:49:34: Yeah In the very end

00:49:35: My answer for them is do they really want an oil base?

00:49:41: plastic on the baby skin is the same material as in a carrier bag.

00:49:45: Do they want to wrap their baby with this for three years every second?

00:49:50: Because you use the diaper twenty-four hours, Is that what do you WANT TO USE ON YOUR BABY SKIN?

00:49:56: No I don't think any parents would say that they wanted to use this material on the Baby Skin.

00:50:00: They wanted to using natural renewable materials.

00:50:03: They used cotton for the baby's skin.

00:50:05: They used soft nice material and natural material.

00:50:08: what they're using, the textile.

00:50:10: They don't use this in their bed on the baby plastic products and I don't think that want to have a plastic product wrapped around there baby.

00:50:19: And it's also for the waste handling.

00:50:21: if you are using renewable material whatever way different countries or different cities is handling the waste.

00:50:28: It's better for environment Its reducing green house effect.

00:50:32: That's all what hundred ninety six countries signed off.

00:50:37: This is the future.

00:50:38: I mean, the most difficult problem in the future is to solve a greenhouse effect.

00:50:43: It's not solved on land-field because then you can touch it and control it And some smart guy could understand how we should handle this.

00:50:51: But green house effects are real alarming problems.

00:50:55: We all need to change our lives.

00:50:57: What kind of material do they use?

00:50:59: So now there will be no discussion if dangerous or not.

00:51:03: Now its obvious for everyone.

00:51:05: Three years ago it was still a discussion if there were just climate differences which have always been.

00:51:11: But now I think everyone is agreeing we need to control this change of the climate.

00:51:18: Did you ever think about offering service for washable diapers instead of diapers that are thrown into the dustbin?

00:51:23: We did an analysis at Swedish Environmental Foundation again and we're having high income, educated people lacking out on time.

00:51:35: wash is not as all better for the environment if you don't do it in exactly the way you need to.

00:51:42: And then, you have green ecological with a right certification washing powder.

00:51:47: You will need to wash it at low degree or forty degrees and you'll also need to not tumble dry or heat it when you have been washing.

00:51:56: And I don't think there's so many people who do like that because It is quite high cost to buy this washable diaper and You probably buy a few of them, then you need To get new fresh one!

00:52:09: I would use ninety degrees.

00:52:11: if i washed This kind of product Because I want make sure its really clean Then Its not good for the environment.

00:52:17: If your take the life cycle analyze on it.

00:52:20: We are always saying our mission as a producer we need to give high performance product on equal cost, but it will be an added value in the environmental

00:52:31: aspect.

00:52:31: That's all!

00:52:32: thing to change the total industry.

00:52:35: Yeah, so that's mass market versus need and at the same time saving time.

00:52:39: how do your markets such a target group?

00:52:40: I mean if they have high income higher education maybe there are little suspicious about some stuff.

00:52:45: yeah i could imagine it isn't easy to do advertising on a target.

00:52:49: no i

00:52:50: think its by being transparent and respect their consumer.

00:52:54: we never had done like multinational underestimating them.

00:52:59: consumers made marketing ever.

00:53:04: I mean if you take the big brands, they're a norm i have heard in industry is that when you buy your product actually use twenty five percent of their products value for marketing.

00:53:15: And we have been maybe using one, two percent of the total turnover maximum including people who work here and I think that way they've been able to sell their product is because our end consumers are well educated in use search information.

00:53:31: you also believe in certification third-party certifications.

00:53:36: We have a few brand which holds a certification.

00:53:40: They're investigating.

00:53:42: i'm hundred percent sure this end consumer is doing that because it's a high consumer value.

00:53:48: And if you are having your egg losses on, If you have become green You need to spend time on investigation Because nobody else is doing for you.

00:53:58: So you need to find out which is the certification I trust?

00:54:01: Because i don't want pay higher price of my food.

00:54:05: Which supply?

00:54:06: just have green washed me and people understand these mechanics

00:54:10: But I mean these like truffle picks, yeah in a way as far as i learned the amount of people isn't that big.

00:54:15: As you said already that the bio industry compared to the whole big FMCG industries is rather small and i guess You guys are interested In helping find people their way through the glasses.

00:54:25: you mentioned The eyeglasses Yeah?

00:54:26: Is there a way Of doing it?

00:54:27: Did you think about Content marketing, are you doing search engine advertising?

00:54:31: Are your on Facebook.

00:54:32: We did some tests last year small test.

00:54:35: in a small way.

00:54:36: we tested different ways of communicating with the consumer and found out that facebook was also good for us because it's getting return on investment.

00:54:45: then... ...we haven't pushed so far!

00:54:48: In trial period now for twelve weeks And just passed four weeks ago.

00:54:54: So this is first time.

00:54:56: assuming works well We will push for more marketing because we need to make sure also that they get the return on investment.

00:55:04: So, if you are not in a position where we can do like the multinational making brand building and that's not the way we handle it And I think also the loyalty club we have hold and awareness of this end consumer Because according to Boston Consulting Group This is an old investigation from two thousand fourteen It's eight percent countries who buying organic eco-products.

00:55:32: from time to time.

00:55:33: And this group of people have probably already reached ten percent, twelve percent.

00:55:38: and when they are the influencer—they're the journalist engineer lawyers whatever they have —they are the influencers!

00:55:46: When they get up to twelve percent if you read economic history then it tips over through other forty-three percent who start wondering maybe I should buy these products better for my health.

00:55:59: so i think its trend now According to Boston Consulting Group, it's going to increase the segment with five-to fifteen percent of non food.

00:56:08: This kind of products because people have just been aware about organic foods and in some markets that has established a good market share And I think that's already an established market now.

00:56:21: But then, for this non-food industry people haven't thought what is inside these kind of products.

00:56:27: because if you start to think all the products which have no ingredients either on them... We will publish ingredients on our diapers and all the products, exactly explain what we're using.

00:56:38: But how could it be that you doesn't have ingredients in a product which are used for three years or when your new baby?

00:56:45: Who is checking and controlling what they use?

00:56:50: as a female tampons for example?

00:56:52: Yeah I guess people think about what they put into their body but not onto them right?

00:56:56: Exactly!

00:56:57: And skin is the biggest membrane of the body.

00:57:00: It takes twenty seconds to get into the blood what you put on your baby skin.

00:57:05: Really?

00:57:05: Twenty seconds,

00:57:06: really that's

00:57:11: insane!

00:57:11: It is scary.

00:57:11: so it's scary.

00:57:12: So people don't think about.

00:57:14: and I think this is the next big trend.

00:57:16: People will start thinking about What are we using?

00:57:19: And i was reading an article in also Swedish environmental foundation The most polluted room In a house or apartment Is the babies room Really?

00:57:29: Yeah, because what are you doing as a new parent.

00:57:31: You decorate the room... ...you paint it by furniture.. ..you buy toys made in China with plastic and softener which is the most dangerous.

00:57:43: It's really all plastic product Which is soft is alarm.

00:57:47: Alarm not for human people.

00:57:48: That's scary!

00:57:49: It's scary.

00:57:50: So its an industry that has pumped in chemicals And much cheaper to use chemical than using natural ingredients.

00:57:59: I would love to see your flat, get some inspiration on how do i furniture my roofs without all this stuff.

00:58:05: Yeah you need to that.

00:58:06: and reading books now because it's alarming.

00:58:09: Yeah, indoor pollution is the word I'm focusing on.

00:58:11: Interesting!

00:58:12: This subscription working by the way in the diaper industry because we have a German company called Lilidu which is backed by some of the internet guys i know as well and As far as i know they pretty much focus on trying to selling subscriptions And...

00:58:23: I think it's a good way to sell diapers.

00:58:25: absolutely.

00:58:26: It is an easy way for families get home with their diapers but We haven't been focusing on this part of business to sell through retailers and online players.

00:58:42: I see we're selling in Korea for example, then eighty percent of the volume is sold online.

00:58:48: How's Amazon working with you guys?

00:58:50: You say that they are selling a lot to Amazon.

00:58:53: Yeah there always

00:58:54: has been tough part on one hand selling alot On other hand being apart from the influence

00:58:58: But also because how have built up the brand That were so unique.

00:59:03: We are not in competition With all those who had commodity.

00:59:08: What about drug stores, by the way?

00:59:09: In Germany you have Osman and DiEM.

00:59:11: They also sell diapers under their own brands which are supposed to be eco.

00:59:16: And they feel like eco in comparison.

00:59:18: I for instance tried out Lidlido but i think that they do not feel like ecodipers To me.

00:59:22: But they don't say it's eco either, Lidlo!

00:59:24: Yeah..I

00:59:24: found out then...They're

00:59:25: not ecodiper or they don´t say that either.

00:59:28: It is

00:59:30: a standard diaper, its an traditional diaper they selling.

00:59:33: These drug store diapers Are really eco.

00:59:36: Is it a competitor for yourself?

00:59:38: I didn't analyze on them, but my analysis is three years old.

00:59:42: and then they was not Echo.

00:59:45: One of their drug market had seventy-five percent oil based plastic in the product.

00:59:50: But i don't know today if you haven't analyzed them in the past... ...but would be really surprised to see increased content because the mechanism of the market private labor needs twenty five percent cheaper than brands.

01:00:04: And If You Then Have A Private Labor and increase the cost for raw material is an impossible mechanism.

01:00:10: They can't have all of their materials, it costs them too much!

01:00:13: Then they need to have the same price as brand leaders... ...and nobody will buy them.

01:00:17: Is

01:00:17: this one your most relevant competitors?

01:00:19: Because these guys have the audience in their rooms that can sell their own stuff towards a cheap

01:00:23: price?

01:00:23: No, private label isn't affecting us.

01:00:25: We've been analysing it so many times.

01:00:28: So when we're launched into a retailer.. ..we never take from private labels but we take from the brand leader Never From.

01:00:34: Private Labels is two different segments and this segment which has high income, higher education.

01:00:39: This responsible consumer.

01:00:42: they are not the one who's buying private labor product many times except in some markets where you have extremely good private labor but also it's new technology that is randomly done by private label.

01:00:55: Private Label is followers when it becomes a commodity to your private labor products while you might have a good quality But Not When You Have Innovation.

01:01:04: Last question, maybe two parts of the equation.

01:01:07: From a user's perspective what can I do to make a difference when it comes these topics?

01:01:12: being eco-using fast moving consumer goods with regard to babies or also women and may be you guys?

01:01:17: What have in mind as vision for next twenty five years?

01:01:20: For end consumers look at right certification.

01:01:23: start educate yourself so that they buy their product.

01:01:27: use natural renewable plant based compostable material because its less dangerous chemically in this material and search for the information.

01:01:37: And our vision is to complete all of our products, To become healthy and good environmental alternative with using plant-based compostable materials.

01:01:49: That's our mission with the company.

01:01:51: I think we are in a good way, yeah?

01:01:52: We have solved the majority of other products.

01:01:56: The diaper is still big challenge but i think you will see light size zero and one With compostable material And then hopefully other companies follow and prices drops.

01:02:09: Maybe all diapers can be composted at least.

01:02:13: Yeah it was really worth taking flight to different country Spending so much time here so much and it was really inspiring.

01:02:21: Thanks a lot for all your time in the input, I think we should follow on this!

01:02:23: Yeah

01:02:24: thanks.