🇦🇺 99designs: The design platform from Australia

00:00:00: Welcome

00:00:00: to a podcast from The Guitar Compact about transferring knowledge and mentoring.

00:00:04: I'm really happy you have an international guest here, please introduce yourself for a second!

00:00:08: Hi well i am happy to be here too.

00:00:09: my name is Patrick Llewellyn the CEO & President of Nine in Own Designs.

00:00:13: Where do come form Australia?

00:00:15: My hometown is Melbourne, Australia.

00:00:17: we also have office there as well.

00:00:19: so good news are that I get home quite often.

00:00:22: I always wonder about these spiders...I heard they live inside the toilet but if they bite you almost close to dying..is it

00:00:28: true?!

00:00:29: It's called a redback spider.

00:00:30: and yes they do like toilet seats, rocks crevices.

00:00:34: They're tiny little black spiders with the red back.

00:00:36: That is so

00:00:37: horrible!

00:00:37: How did you survive down there?

00:00:39: I mean literally

00:00:40: yeah it's tough.

00:00:40: There are plenty of things that will kill you.

00:00:43: Yeah snakes frogs

00:00:45: jellyfish jellyfish

00:00:47: crocodiles

00:00:49: Yes sharks lots of sharks.

00:00:52: The reality of it is, you're more likely to die in a car.

00:00:56: Really?

00:00:57: Yeah!

00:00:57: So the good news is that doesn't happen often.

00:01:00: I think everyone's afraid actually but we do have to be wary.

00:01:06: We also have this thing called drop bear which no one knows about.

00:01:12: People think of koalas as this like soft thing where they have this nasty cousin called the drop bear and they will fall out a tree to kill you.

00:01:20: So when your walking in an Australian bush, be very careful always look up!

00:01:24: But if do see one... Be very careful!

00:01:31: Do you surf?

00:01:32: I do surf yes but not really well.

00:01:35: One these strange folks who All Australians have to surf.

00:01:39: It's part of our genetic coding, right?

00:01:41: And so I started surfing when i was a kid.

00:01:43: but in Melbourne... Melbourne is pretty landlocked place!

00:01:49: I lived on the suburbs and mountains.

00:01:52: The ocean was along way away.

00:01:53: none my family surfed or into the oceans.

00:01:56: So..the only time we ever went surfing was On two week holiday.

00:02:00: We used go to caravan park and stay in a caravan, camping.

00:02:05: And I would surf for those two weeks.

00:02:07: so it never got very good!

00:02:09: Then I lived in Sydney for ten years... ...and used to body-surf alot but didn't surf surf.

00:02:17: Somehow i moved to San Francisco six years ago about one year.

00:02:20: this is the fun story of everyone.

00:02:22: I want take two seconds tell you.

00:02:24: In san francisco we've raised our series A So just did big deal with excel thirty-five million dollar round and I had to fly back, uh...to Australia.

00:02:33: To do interviews in press and see the team doing this stuff..I'm on a plane....and i wake up!

00:02:41: And im like...are we nearly there?

00:02:45: Cause it's saying that its two hours until we land.

00:02:47: Im like

00:02:47: man!!

00:02:47: I really slept

00:02:48: well!!!

00:02:50: In fact what happened was the plane had to turn around and go back to Hawaii because someone would have had an heart attack.

00:02:56: And so I end up in Hawaii.

00:02:58: We only, we're cheap right?

00:02:59: So I'm flying in a economy premium economy.

00:03:03: And so when you get to...we had a twelve hour layover and so You got like given a shitty hotel room to go stay at.

00:03:11: and i'm sitting In this hotel room and I realized I've never been to Hawaii and I'm working.

00:03:17: I've Never been here..I should Go for a walk or do something because I ended up going over the Macy's store.

00:03:22: I bought shorts cause it was wintertime.

00:03:24: I Was Going To in Australia but It was hot in Hawaii.

00:03:28: thongs, I don't know what you guys call them.

00:03:30: We called them flip flops and a t-shirt.

00:03:34: then i go back And I keep working.

00:03:36: this is stupid!

00:03:37: I've got to go see something.

00:03:39: so I ended up walking down the Waikiki beach.

00:03:42: It's nearly getting dark.

00:03:44: all that really wanted after I should try surfing.

00:03:46: So I spoke with one guy on the Beach who had some surfboards to rent.

00:03:50: He was like yeah hang around I'm trying to talk, there was this girl that he's talking to.

00:03:56: He said like i'll be here for a while and she says give me ten bucks so you can tag my board.

00:04:01: So...I went out and half way out.

00:04:05: what am I doing?

00:04:07: The waves are crashing on me.

00:04:08: now I realise that haven't slept in twenty four hours.

00:04:12: This is going to be good news story.

00:04:14: CEO dies in surf But make it right away And I got home.

00:04:23: I'm gonna start surfing.

00:04:25: We need to go on a surfing holiday and so we went uh yeah, Cabo in Mexico And i took my then six year old boy.

00:04:31: He started surfing.

00:04:32: now he's eleven.

00:04:34: For the last five years we surf very regularly.

00:04:37: What do you love about it?

00:04:39: So for me It is one time that everything else disappears Ducky under a wave or riding away or paddling.

00:04:50: It's pretty hard to think about anything else.

00:04:52: You're gasping for breath the ocean sound it just takes you over and so for me, it's probably The most relaxing thing I can do even though an end from and what?

00:05:03: I love is the fact that its strenuous.

00:05:05: So I like the physical activity of it so I can get to the end event And I feel like i've done a good workout i'm tired you know all those things but at the same time have had Period where it's quiet.

00:05:18: Okay, but so I learned doctors do play golf and Internet guys to do surfing.

00:05:23: that's nice.

00:05:24: You've lent this before yeah?

00:05:25: Yeah no But i'm just thinking its funny you know.

00:05:28: hey Patrick what did she do last week?

00:05:29: oh I raised thirty five million dollars from excellent then went surfing.

00:05:32: dude

00:05:34: It's a little.

00:05:35: I feel like it is a little cliche.

00:05:36: there are lots of things.

00:05:38: I understand That.

00:05:40: in fact I met some investors who think about.

00:05:45: They were thinking about running conferences around surfing.

00:05:48: I met one.

00:05:49: actually there's a German guy, a German entrepreneur guy.

00:05:52: he started an wind surfing event in Egypt i think.

00:05:55: German farmers moving to Egypt and doing this kite surfing thing.

00:05:58: yeah so...

00:05:59: So kitesurfing is huge here.

00:06:02: do you know if you've met Fridl?

00:06:04: Fridi off!

00:06:05: He was the founder of Jimdu.

00:06:07: oh yeah pretty good a great German company out of Hamburg.

00:06:12: Yeah, I was about to say that he lives in Hamburg and Hamburg is closer to surfing than Berlin.

00:06:16: Not THAT close but yes!

00:06:17: Closer... But he's a fantastic kite surfer.

00:06:21: Oh really?

00:06:22: World class.

00:06:23: so he and i have surfed a little bit together And then the next minute we look up He'll be parasailing or kitesurfing Or whatever.

00:06:30: yeah

00:06:31: Okay because I wasn't thinking of Constantin Bizas.

00:06:34: you know him.

00:06:35: He founded a German shopping club called Brands for Friends, which was sold to eBay.

00:06:40: And right now he is in New York and found the company that's called Alua... ...which actually is like food basically producing food!

00:06:48: And also he's into kite surfing.

00:06:49: so he crossed The Bering Sea.

00:06:51: I think he did a movie thing or documentary crossing the Bering sea.

00:06:56: If you stay close to him it looks like a surfer boy.

00:06:59: Greetings, Konstantin if you listen to this.

00:07:02: All the people that listened for ten minutes now have no idea what your doing basically.

00:07:06: give them an idea about designing designs.

00:07:08: So we're the largest on-demand design marketplace in the world.

00:07:13: and so like.

00:07:13: what does On Demand Design Marketplace mean?

00:07:16: It means large global community of designers who are online ready to do work for anyone Who needs it.

00:07:23: What is interesting About our model Is a lot Of People use Contest platform, which means that you post a brief.

00:07:29: Designers have the opportunity they read to breathe.

00:07:32: if their interested They can submit their ideas to them.

00:07:35: so you see multiple ideas from multiple designers.

00:07:38: You work with them in real time at the end of the process?

00:07:40: You pick the one that you like.

00:07:42: The design files are uploaded Etc.

00:07:45: So we've helped I think.

00:07:48: now nearly five hundred thousand customers around the world paid out a hundred and forty two million dollars to our design community.

00:07:55: We're paying at about three-and-a-half million dollars per month, so for us this is very important metric because we are passionate about creating opportunities all over the world.

00:08:09: I

00:08:10: mean, funnily.

00:08:11: i myself created my logo on your side like the digital

00:08:15: compact

00:08:16: logo will come.

00:08:18: I witnessed in my case that it you know overwhelms you in a way.

00:08:22: yes is this something that you witness often?

00:08:24: because if nine hundred logos are presented to me let's say three hundred and three different variations?

00:08:32: Who was able to judge which is good and what isn't?

00:08:34: You Know What I'm In.

00:08:35: It's Like If Your Not An Expert And Logos You're Pretty Close To Choosing Bad Bones

00:08:39: Basically.

00:08:40: Yeah, that is a problem and something we need to continue to work towards because I think you do get a bit overwhelmed by choice.

00:08:46: Generally will choose the design where the designer has communicated why it's important so... ...I think can sort of understand relevancy through interaction with the designer versus necessarily just how looks and feels here.

00:09:01: This notion of too much choice is something that we're constantly grappling with, because what is too much?

00:09:07: Part of the thing that's great about NINDIZONES is when you came and had no idea what your looking for.

00:09:13: By seeing all these variations started to be able to zone in on what it was like or essence of a brand so getting mixed right!

00:09:23: It's something that we're constantly thinking about and reviewing.

00:09:27: And like this tool where you could ask your friends, hey I have these ten logos which one do they like best?

00:09:33: Our job is to be the canvas.

00:09:36: really how can...to your point if we had started in two thousand eight We bootstrapped for first three years of our existence.

00:09:47: What does bootstrap mean?

00:09:48: So it means pretty known in German, right.

00:09:52: And I think a lot of German companies have to do at.

00:09:54: Australian companies are the same.

00:09:56: there's not necessarily huge market for venture capital and so The sooner you can generate your own cash flow better.

00:10:03: but what that meant For us is we took very MVP approach to product development.

00:10:10: We're constantly testing adding new But also meant historic code in that code base.

00:10:18: And so by doing the rebrand is the first time, you know history That everything looks the same right into the deep bowels of our app.

00:10:26: You know we have a new design uploaded every one point.

00:10:29: five seconds twenty four by seven today.

00:10:31: Okay

00:10:32: There's about ten thousand designers online at any one

00:10:34: time.

00:10:35: sort of thumbs I guess.

00:10:36: yeah exactly So but it means it's pretty complicated web app that we've created and there's A lot to do And so that means lots of pieces.

00:10:47: Okay, but actually I'm speaking about logos quite a lot.

00:10:50: But you're not only about logos.

00:10:51: also like i learned like ci in general Facebook designs or

00:10:55: anything right.

00:10:55: we have over ninety design categories.

00:10:57: We definitely well known for logos and lots startups and potentially listeners to this podcast You know?

00:11:04: We do a great job!

00:11:06: That's how we started.

00:11:07: literally was doing mostly logo webdesign For technology companies in Silicon Valley.

00:11:14: the take a step back, there was no evil genius thinking about how to create this.

00:11:22: There's no moment of like.

00:11:24: uh-huh we had a design community in a forum who were doing a game called Photoshop Tennis where they were actually doing this for fun.

00:11:32: so fictional brief designs are uploaded.

00:11:36: People would comment on that and then one day, one of those designers was like hey I need to get a logo for website client.

00:11:43: You guys liked doing logos for fun.

00:11:45: here's my brief.

00:11:45: submit your ideas to me.

00:11:47: if i pick one you will pay you right.

00:11:49: it is that organic?

00:11:51: so this behavior just

00:11:52: happened.

00:11:54: What did you do?

00:11:54: this whole bootstrapping thing?

00:11:56: Actually, I think quite a lot of these startup guys out there maybe we should explain bootstraping does make sense.

00:12:01: the VC close guys don't know it.

00:12:03: Bootstrapping basically means starting company without having any money right.

00:12:06: and how did she?

00:12:08: So we were lucky in that, uh...we had a benevolent parent.

00:12:11: We're a spin out of another company called SitePoint.

00:12:14: so this forums existed in SitePoint and SitePoint has a community of designers and a community developers.

00:12:21: they sold books information to the community.

00:12:24: it was on the designer forum where behavior started.

00:12:27: our founders Mark & Matt saw this happening.

00:12:32: maybe there's business opportunity here.

00:12:35: And what is for sure, the forum's getting very messy.

00:12:39: So they started charging people to list in a form and then we were able to MVP the product.

00:12:46: Explain it to someone who doesn't know what does this mean?

00:12:48: MVP like minimum viable.

00:12:50: so essentially test one was.

00:12:52: these designers are doing that for fun In a forum thread.

00:12:56: Then their starting pay each other but very unstructured.

00:12:59: So step one was just to test, is there market demand for this mechanic?

00:13:04: And so they charged people ten dollars to list in the forum and people continued to list and pay them ten dollars then charge twenty dollars and people continue to do it.

00:13:15: And at that time, then people are saying well hey if you're charging twenty dollars here's the things I need.

00:13:20: we need some way so they can work.

00:13:21: We need a way of paying each other A way for exchange copyright like these sort of mechanics what our platform provides.

00:13:29: users were telling us about.

00:13:32: So we very engaged with this community of customers and designers on both sides who tell us what needed from us.

00:13:38: The guys built I don't know how to describe it other than minimum, but like a first draft of that product inside SitePoint tested and then ninety-nine designs were spun out.

00:13:49: And so when we spun out We had two engineers on payroll

00:13:53: But

00:13:54: It was like doing in your parent's garage.

00:13:56: We didn't have to pay for rent or the internet but we had just enough cash flow to pay for the engineers.

00:14:03: What I found funny was my designers, I think funnily.

00:14:06: they're ones on top like my favorites.

00:14:09: actually all of them came from Indonesia and i can remember whenever I spoke with a really super professional designer you know these guys that get not two hundred euro per logo maybe two thousand?

00:14:21: They always said oh you know... ninety-nine designs.

00:14:24: it's so hard because people are overblown by their choice!

00:14:26: The other one is its way too cheap And I was, you could see it this way probably.

00:14:32: But what i found interesting is actually some kind of geo arbitrage.

00:14:36: in a way You know if the designer in Indonesia gets like...I think they paid around about eight hundred euros or something.

00:14:43: So its not two hundred euro but more.

00:14:46: Let's say he got to receive foreign Euro.

00:14:48: In Indonesia I guess four hundred euro is quite a bit and I find that funny.

00:14:52: Talking to someone also that the night day shifts, right?

00:14:56: I was writing emails in the evening and received a new design in the morning.

00:14:59: So there was really fun.

00:15:00: Yes You get the benefit of a global community is it's on twenty four by seven Right?

00:15:05: so what you're talking about?

00:15:06: you can sort of work in ships And i know people customers are described into us like its Christmas.

00:15:12: every day I wake up in the Morning and my inboxes full of New Designs

00:15:17: But then the web comes and breaks, in my case it was like okay cool fifteen new logos.

00:15:24: I think you certainly have probably set some records on number of entries And what is for sure designers love feedback?

00:15:31: And they liked customers who are engaged In the process.

00:15:35: so if your showing those attributes Then more & more will come.

00:15:39: They'll see a design code.

00:15:40: that's kind of contrary to What You Think right?

00:15:42: You're thinking well.

00:15:43: If their already seeing all this activity why would they bother Participating?

00:15:47: because they're participating for other reasons and part of that reason is I want to learn from each Other.

00:15:52: They wanna learn From the customer, then what someone who's engaged in passion about What they doing cuz their passion About what they are doing?

00:15:58: And so by providing feedback seeming engaged.

00:16:03: So this one secret sauce if

00:16:05: you don't have to spend more money You just have To be engaged.

00:16:08: okay

00:16:09: and people see That your Attentive providing feedback in the time if you know and they also start to get attracted.

00:16:17: If it seems like, you know what?

00:16:19: You want?

00:16:20: I mean you guys see thousands of logos.

00:16:22: yeah What would she say?

00:16:23: well whatever that three main ways to create a great logo.

00:16:27: What should the guy that has no idea about design look for when he comes through your website and says, hey I'm starting websites?

00:16:34: Good question!

00:16:35: From my perspective you need start with first principles.

00:16:38: so before even thinking of the logo think about business what it is trying achieve who's target audience?

00:16:50: What are the values that you want represented in your business?

00:16:53: So, sort of go back to first principles.

00:16:55: Think about your business plan target market.

00:16:59: once You've got a firm handle on who you are and what you wanna be then I think it's perfect time To get that logo to match that.

00:17:07: And so then well you're trying to do is find a design That represents those core values and and appeals to this specific Target Market.

00:17:16: there you going

00:17:16: after.

00:17:18: The more that you can refine your thinking about who am I targeting, the better chance of having a design will be representative.

00:17:27: What i look for in Design is something like today we need design that works on mobile device and holding up my phone.

00:17:35: it doesn't work for audio podcast but you need something that works with mobile devices on a big screen, maybe it needs to go in the billboard at some point if you get wildly successful.

00:17:48: So you need something that can go from small form factor into large form factor.

00:17:53: and so I think we're seeing design typically... You looking for someone who's little more simple?

00:18:00: Um..I always like see designed works.

00:18:02: black-and white not just color right because this helps me understand how simple is representation of these.

00:18:12: You're in pretty good shape.

00:18:13: If you've got a design at the end of day that... ...you like, you feel represents your audience well and you can test it.

00:18:21: so what are talking about?

00:18:23: You could run polls or get people to vote on Twitter or Facebook.

00:18:28: You can actually market tests if you'd like with your designs Various form factors

00:18:38: in general speaking.

00:18:39: I mean actually, I have quite a few guys.

00:18:41: they come from these business schools.

00:18:43: There are numbers driven and they start web business.

00:18:45: So i think this is like you know explaining design to a business guy.

00:18:49: it's probably like explaining tech To me In general.

00:18:52: how important?

00:18:53: Is designed nice logo a appearance that that is nice for our company success?

00:18:59: just thinking about your own experience i mean today We engage with brands in so many ways than we ever did before.

00:19:06: The landscapes just changed so dramatically, ten or fifteen years ago you'd look at the yellow pages of a phone book maybe it was Google search like very simple interaction and today were interacting with brands In so many different forms.

00:19:25: So how do I think isn't playing a very important role.

00:19:32: The biggest company in the world, most valuable company is Apple.

00:19:36: and what do we know about apple?

00:19:38: They make beautiful things so i gotta refer to it as the appellation of the world.

00:19:44: but our us consumers...I think WE all understand the value.

00:19:49: good design IKEA, Apple..all these single like sort quality designs are now all persuasive and its everywhere.

00:19:58: and for businesses to stand out, you kind of need to fit into this new norm.

00:20:05: And I think the more you can have... And depending on your target market, of course but they're more professional that you can represent yourself The better off are gonna be because people going to comparing from day one comparisons is so easy too do right?

00:20:21: I Google search your service.

00:20:23: i'm gonna compare it with a number others.

00:20:25: So don't have lot go on necessarily.

00:20:30: But part of what I'm making my judgment on is how does it feel?

00:20:35: How does that look, and so now the reality.

00:20:41: with not a huge investment you can get something thats really professional.

00:20:49: That can be

00:20:50: a fun way.

00:20:51: What's your experience?

00:20:51: I mean, i look at the wall which says Are you probably for Australia D Germany US and I guess we are Brazil?

00:20:57: right?

00:20:58: so these other four countries australia germany america in brazil And after to think about it in japan as well.

00:21:04: Right yes start Japan.

00:21:05: how do logos and then they sing things that are asked from a logo differ In all on this continents.

00:21:11: i'm in australian versus us for this europe or this asia.

00:21:14: Other differences

00:21:16: I think design is becoming more global, so i don't think the differences as marked.

00:21:22: As they used to be right?

00:21:23: And we were very regional once.

00:21:25: and now The fact that everyone's looking from everywhere at everything.

00:21:29: So information & Design.

00:21:31: Now really if you take a look in Spain for instance like Spanish logos Look totally different than German ones.

00:21:37: French ones are also different English one even more different.

00:21:41: Or Israel or USA Like you know once our salesy Once our flourishing away.

00:21:46: Yeah, it doesn't

00:21:47: differ that much.

00:21:49: It does.

00:21:49: but I hear what you're saying about the reality of this is there's lots of international brands That are now icons all over the world and those brands don't differ too much in those markets.

00:21:59: so There's a certain International designer static that Is pretty popular?

00:22:05: And So i think we're seeing that applied everywhere.

00:22:08: But yeah, there's always regional differences.

00:22:11: use Of color.

00:22:12: have you ever tried Coca-Cola?

00:22:13: different company at different country?

00:22:15: sure

00:22:16: And this is what I learned that there's a big museum in Atlanta, where a coconut cola comes from.

00:22:21: In the end you can taste all different coaxes of countries and it tastes totally different.

00:22:26: It does

00:22:26: taste different!

00:22:27: But the logos are the same on the

00:22:29: bottles right?

00:22:32: The bottle looks like they're different but little bit.

00:22:34: There always regionality to it no doubt... reflects the nuance of that market.

00:22:43: A lot of our customers are looking for something that appeals broadly, I think businesses.

00:22:47: today a lot of the business is particularly you know start-ups on entrepreneur who are on outside thinking about an international market not just their home market right like Businesses no longer confined to.

00:23:00: You Know it doesn't have to be confined too Any particular region.

00:23:04: you can have global appeal.

00:23:05: Hopefully your podcast is getting listened to by more than just German listeners, right?

00:23:10: Maybe and over time it will expand potentially alright.

00:23:13: And so You wanted to appear.

00:23:16: you could also do something that's very regional But it depends on you know Your target market.

00:23:21: what are trying

00:23:21: to achieve when I was also asking myself speaking with you and your colleagues here in the office Is The frequency of people buying your service must be actually quite low?

00:23:31: no In my case as well supposed like like crazy.

00:23:34: for two weeks.

00:23:34: i need the slogan all these iterations and they need something from facebook twitter business cards.

00:23:40: but once you have it, I can imagine that this probably come back in five years when they found their next company or website.

00:23:46: But in between it is hard to guess.

00:23:48: yeah that's a great reflection.

00:23:52: we've got two different customer types really with those who design all of time.

00:23:56: knows what people do you know, want to get set up but then they don't necessarily have huge demand for design or that?

00:24:07: I think we're going do a better job of explaining why they can use us more often.

00:24:11: Because i think were all in the realm now.

00:24:14: content marketing and thinking about different ways we could engage our users so probably should be changing out designs bit more often landing page testing infographics e-books, etc.

00:24:27: The better that they are designed the more appealing their going to be to potential customers.

00:24:34: and so I think we're seeing bigger companies use our platform to create this kind of rich content marketing stack of design So there using us for illustrations or infographics or posters.

00:24:49: But is it a way you could actively tackle that problem?

00:24:52: That people would normally return quite late?

00:24:55: Yeah, I mean so we obviously communicate with them.

00:24:57: We've got to do a better job of educating them So they understand what are the things that could be doing.

00:25:03: What about referrals?

00:25:04: Usually you refer it on your way off And so sixty percent of our customers come through word-of

00:25:08: mouth.

00:25:09: Okay

00:25:09: The good news is whilst they might not use us again

00:25:13: But then tell five of their friends Exactly

00:25:15: Because there's had great experience right It has been pretty unique experience You know.

00:25:19: They may have worked harder than they thought In your case, you know.

00:25:23: You had a lot of designs to work through but at the end of it... ...you've got product that are really proud off and been through an experience which was mostly fun!

00:25:30: And then when you tell friends right?

00:25:33: Well if they need a logo go down in design.

00:25:36: so we're very lucky that our customers love our service, you know it's sort of good luck and good management.

00:25:42: We work very hard at it.

00:25:44: we invest a lot in customer support so that if you have any issues you can call someone chat to them email him and we're going to respond very quickly.

00:25:53: likewise we invest alot into design community.

00:25:55: You know where the only labour marketplace in world that verifies identification for everyone who comes are constantly Gathering data on our designer so that they can improve.

00:26:09: You know, we understand who's good and whose not And help them benefit.

00:26:13: where do

00:26:13: the best designers come from?

00:26:15: That's a good.

00:26:16: I mean i'm pretty partial to uh... I Can't really say it's like choosing one of your children.

00:26:22: We have great design is everywhere.

00:26:25: Yeah Uh you Know I think I think there are some great design aesthetic.

00:26:32: We had a lot of great European designers.

00:26:34: So we have a fantastic Indonesian community and I love, I love the work that they're doing.

00:26:38: but you know i'm pretty partial to some of the talent that exists in Italy for example also some of sort of Adriatic's Croatia Serbia...I

00:26:50: had the impression that warm country like weather-wise The passion is higher there.

00:26:57: maybe they do more design.

00:26:59: thats crazy.

00:27:01: I think you've got to look at where is art important.

00:27:04: Maybe

00:27:04: Scandinavia, okay?

00:27:06: So where design is important and we certainly see that like why don't you talk about Indonesia?

00:27:11: Indonesia has a very rich deep history in art.

00:27:14: if you go If you've been to Indonesia before, have you been to Bali or anywhere?

00:27:18: No.

00:27:19: I think Sri Lanka which is quite similar

00:27:21: in a way but... Yeah it's similar right.

00:27:22: so everywhere we look there are design as art arts taught and schools that uh It's understandable to see this sort of growing design community because its something thats inherent culturally there, and likewise.

00:27:36: There's plenty of other parts in the world Spain Italy etc.

00:27:39: where designers also always played an important part.

00:27:42: but we have.

00:27:43: The beauty about our platform is We have great designers everywhere And it's truly a global platform.

00:27:50: So you know?

00:27:51: We haven't been sure we had big community.

00:27:52: Indonesia will save a really big community in the USA You know at two biggest markets in Europe or the UK and Italy right select for design so they can't.

00:28:03: it's kind of interesting

00:28:04: by the way if I look at this wall like different teams here as we said its Australia Germany USA Brazil Japan.

00:28:10: Actually from the conception of your product, you could be global right from the start.

00:28:15: Aren't you?

00:28:16: Why aren't you in Africa or everywhere?

00:28:19: We are everywhere!

00:28:20: So I think we've paid designers in a hundred and ninety-two or ninety three countries around the world.

00:28:26: so it's just that we nearly paid someone every where... ...we had customers for something like one hundred fifty plus countries.... true global reach.

00:28:36: So there's focus markets, but

00:28:37: yeah and I think what we have learned is this value in customizing your product for a local market.

00:28:44: so when now an eight languages We take payment in i think thirteen or fourteen different currencies ,we have localized customer support In eight different languages And regions of the world.

00:29:01: customization of the service.

00:29:02: Our average price point is pretty high, right?

00:29:05: So your average customer spending around five hundred dollars with us US and so to do that online with a credit card you need to feel like you can trust the platform in which you're engaging with.

00:29:18: And part of way we build trust Is to be available.

00:29:22: It's talk to you about language most comfortable To allow you pay for means most comfortable you know, to you and however you want.

00:29:32: And so that has been an important part...and what we've found is when we apply those principles in new markets We see exponential improvement growth rates.

00:29:43: Actually I talked quite a lot of startups.

00:29:47: some things repeat anyway right?

00:29:49: You always look for like how big the basket?

00:29:52: How many recurring customers do they have?

00:29:54: What does marketing quote looks like?

00:29:56: actually it's often about brands as well.

00:29:59: So people say if your basket is really high, you need a good brand.

00:30:02: As she said... If you want referrals and you're going to get it right.

00:30:04: If you wanted recurring customers who needed that brand?

00:30:06: so I totally agree.

00:30:07: Yeah.

00:30:08: And we talked about the one-off customer.

00:30:11: A little bit.

00:30:12: The reality of this We are now discovering as our platform evolves Our business evolves That..we have very different.

00:30:21: Sorry there's some noise in the background.

00:30:22: Never mind

00:30:23: No one here is sitting down.

00:30:26: Customer base are using us on a regular basis.

00:30:29: So we have Small agencies and bigger businesses now using us all the time for so some were using it to service their clients And some of you're using it too service themselves, and so our biggest customer last year spent A hundred fifty thousand dollars with us.

00:30:46: okay That's quite a bit.

00:30:47: that's quite abit right.

00:30:48: like that's a lot of design.

00:30:49: at five hundred dollars an average how

00:30:51: much revenue do you have in general?

00:30:53: Last yeah was close to sixty million US.

00:30:56: How did you manage this excel thing with the thirty-million dollars investment?

00:31:01: how do we approach these guys and like,like...how do you convince them?

00:31:04: I think these are the main two questions that young people

00:31:06: have asked for sure.

00:31:07: so i think the secret of our success was we didn't approached him.

00:31:12: what we did is focus on finding customers delivering a good service in growing their so really focused on out business not Anything else, right?

00:31:21: And so when?

00:31:22: and what you find is investors hear about you sooner rather than later if they're good investors.

00:31:28: They are looking for touch points their active in forums of reviewing Facebook there scouring blogs or scouring any information source to hear what people are talking about.

00:31:38: And so if you produce something or that is starting to resonate with the community, then you've got a good chance of attracting investors' interest.

00:31:47: and I think if the investor's come to you... ...you're in much stronger position than when they go to them.

00:31:52: You know?

00:31:53: It's very hard just knock on an investor door and say hey give me money.

00:31:57: But If you can have an investor knock your door and said Hey!

00:32:00: What you doing interesting Then you'll be much stronger position.

00:32:03: And so I talk a lot about, especially for European businesses or Australian business places.

00:32:09: if you're in Silicon Valley then there's a lot of money and perhaps do have the opportunity to just knock on an investor door.

00:32:16: maybe your investors are next-door neighbor Or you've been successful in the past.

00:32:20: So your reputation is strong enough that investors will give you money based on it.

00:32:25: But If You Are A First Time Entrepreneur And You're Outside The US Then These Things Aren't Probably Going In Your Favour.

00:32:31: And so I think then get as far you can.

00:32:38: engage with the community.

00:32:40: The more you know about your business, the better off it's going to be in that investment process.

00:32:46: so we probably had forty or so different investors approach us before.

00:32:51: Forty of this quite a bit!

00:32:53: Right and I moved to Silicon Valley in two thousand ten to set up our operations there.

00:32:59: We have one go on the ground already but officially having headquarters.

00:33:06: by moving closer to the investors that certainly made it a lot easier.

00:33:11: Then I moved in February of two thousand and ten.

00:33:15: January late January, we did around with Excel.

00:33:19: in April of twenty-one eleven will excel first talk to us in mark and i met with excel on October of two hundred ten.

00:33:28: okay no october two thousand nine so was nearly two years before we took their money.

00:33:36: You know they tried to invest earlier and it wasn't the right deal for them or for us, but over time we got to know each other.

00:33:45: And we've got build trust really go to understand value that you could bring our business in reality of this is like Andrew Braccio.

00:33:55: first he had Miles claim, you know it's sort of the intern approached us or associate director approach does.

00:34:04: but then You know The first meeting we had was with Andrew and quickly realized that these guys knew almost more about our business than We did.

00:34:12: this value that we got from the conversation Was extraordinary?

00:34:16: And they networked at they bring

00:34:18: and still you waited for two years.

00:34:19: Yeah I don't think we have the track record in Australia of seeing businesses flourish with investor money.

00:34:26: Like, you know more often entrepreneurs will talk about bringing an investor on and how they invested made their life hard And a lot of time that blame them for that.

00:34:36: relationship is not good relationships.

00:34:38: It's one makes it very difficult to go forward whereas... We were pretty conscious of this and wanted make sure For us, Excel has been the right investor.

00:34:50: They share the same values they're patient... ...they want to build something that's category defining and don't care how long it takes.

00:35:01: To be honest I think your case is pretty special in a way.

00:35:04: Founders have the ability to choose between thirty or forty investors.

00:35:10: having Axel as an investor like being a soccer player.. ..and being asked by UNIGO or Real Madrid which would you play for?

00:35:16: Yeah, I understand.

00:35:18: I think we were definitely in a very fortunate position but there are things that you can do to give your better chance of being in that position and certainly one Of the best thing is create some buzz around your business And just focus on delivering The Best Service You Can, The Best Outcome That You Can.

00:35:39: Generally doing the right thing pays off In the long run.

00:35:45: I don't know if there's any really quick, some people manage it but its hard to find that magic quick win and in the end of day business much like life is kind of a matter many experiments.

00:36:00: Many times you fail just being patient and consistent and executing on things your core believes which generally Treat others like you want to be treated and got a good chance of being successful.

00:36:16: And then I think if your successful man, the other things have got a chance come up too.

00:36:20: but yeah i don't think everyone raising money is not that they all an end or right.

00:36:26: there thing thats important is doing what u love so that you do it well.

00:36:32: hmm and uh...and and and i think if you do that you You're more likely to be successful in the first place.

00:36:38: I mean, i became a big fan of hypothesis.

00:36:40: you know if you have one hypothesis that your following it totally changes the game because this also changes.

00:36:47: do you look at investors?

00:36:48: Do they support this vision or does it make sense and all their stuff?

00:36:52: so...I guess you are right

00:36:53: Yeah!

00:36:54: And think other thing is like just going back to investing..you may not have luxury with lots choice But remember it's always a two-way relationship, right?

00:37:05: Like I Always think of Taking on investment like get job interview.

00:37:10: You know if If one side is only asking the questions.

00:37:15: that's unlikely That's gonna be successful.

00:37:18: Interesting approach

00:37:19: Right?

00:37:19: so you have to be thinking about it like and i think we forget that.

00:37:23: everyone forgets that especially when The reality of it is, you might be desperate to get this money in the door.

00:37:30: To get your idea off the ground or take business at a next level.

00:37:34: and so if someone's offering me my new kind-of think well.

00:37:39: Exactly right but they're really over.

00:37:41: this is gonna be the most one important relationship she ever entered into and say shouldn't do that based just on the shiny pretty box of money.

00:37:49: so treat it like job interview ask good questions Reference checking.

00:37:56: You know, just like you would an employee or employer and look around investigate figure out.

00:38:04: Is this the right partner for me?

00:38:06: Take some time spend some time together talking about to your point the hypothesis And are you really aligned?

00:38:14: because there's gonna be lots of bumps in the road.

00:38:16: and but if If is a core alignment and shared vision Then you can overcome those together.

00:38:24: I think Stefan Glänzer, a business agent from London once said on our conference It's harder getting rid of your investor than getting divorced from your wife

00:38:32: Exactly!

00:38:33: So that...that is probably right i don't want to do either.

00:38:39: But it's about relationships but also

00:38:41: more of the college life.

00:38:42: Yeah and so You know..I've always said to young people And there's no hard and fast rule to life, right?

00:38:49: There is a lot of investment.

00:38:53: Live with someone for eighteen months before you get married because your learn alot!

00:38:59: If u can then its great opportunity or go travel with your significant other cause.

00:39:05: thats when you really start learning.

00:39:08: those extreme situations.

00:39:10: are we good match?

00:39:13: Hard to do with an investor, but the more that you can stress test and understand each other And maybe have some continuity To their relationship.

00:39:22: The better off You're gonna be?

00:39:23: That's why You know networking With investors is as important thing.

00:39:28: if you think it's something you want to Do It's partly Why we moved to Silicon Valley right where a little Aussie company We were bootstrapped ,we had our own money .We didn't really need the Money to grow But it was hard to do.

00:39:39: so we move to silicon valley So that we could Be closer the world that is, that investment community potential partners etc.

00:39:47: And the more we spend time with them The More Comfortable We Got.

00:39:51: How do you do it by the way?

00:39:52: The more

00:39:52: comfortable I got

00:39:54: I mean, i guess quite a few German founders would love to go to Silicon Valley.

00:39:58: This green card issue is one for itself but you could actually visit the place there.

00:40:03: so what's the secret sauce?

00:40:04: if you want a valley investor like how do you behave?

00:40:08: How did it get in touch with them?

00:40:09: Do you meet on these like what's called Sandhill Road and Starbucks or how can we imagine this?

00:40:15: yeah I think we just go back to the first principles, hopefully they come to you.

00:40:20: So where you should be is what your customers are and that's what you should focus on most?

00:40:25: I think meeting them in Starbucks it not likely get you investment right especially if coming from Germany because like...you don't have any reference.

00:40:34: so..if want meet investors then ideally creating a network of people who can help influence those peoples If thats the route you wanna take.

00:40:45: it's about connection and trust.

00:40:48: And that is very hard to establish through, you know a one night quick interaction but go to events participate in the event meet with them show your plan then back how you are progressing against your plans.

00:41:07: these guys will lot of time.

00:41:10: they'll meet and maybe it's a junior or associate, you don't get to meet the partner.

00:41:15: This is not about they're gonna give money on their first time but if you spend your time with someone in an organization tell them what ya wanna do.

00:41:25: show them your plan of how you can execute against that sometime into future.

00:41:29: go back say hey I told you this ,this & this.

00:41:33: well i did this, this & this is what I've learned and progress have made.

00:41:39: I think that's when you're starting to build a relationship.

00:41:42: You start in the bill trust, and if they can see that you've said hey i'm gonna do this This is where im going And then They Can See That Your On That Path.

00:41:52: Then You'Ve Got A Really Great Chance Of Them Wanting To Come On That Journey.

00:41:56: So Talk To Anyone.

00:42:00: Don't Think You Need To Talk The Guy Who Invested In Facebook.

00:42:05: Everyone From You know the person who answers the phone greets you at that door.

00:42:12: Everyone is part of the fabric of an investment in community right.

00:42:16: so treat everyone with respect.

00:42:20: don't be afraid.

00:42:21: i was so many europeans and australians like, I've got a great business idea but can tell about it.

00:42:28: if you notice americans are completely different.

00:42:31: they're actually lucky out.

00:42:32: I've got a business idea, and you're like,"I don't even want to hear

00:42:35: it.".

00:42:35: It doesn't matter.

00:42:36: They are telling me right?

00:42:38: And they aren't afraid of sharing because ultimately ideas are valueless.

00:42:43: that's actually how people execute.

00:42:45: It is so hard for

00:42:48: them not believe this.

00:42:49: Actually the better opportunity... The more you tell about your idea or the better chance you have at learning about the pitfalls I can't tell you, will you sign an NDA and i'll tell about it.

00:43:07: Good luck because the reality of there's not many things in life that require that level secrecy.

00:43:18: from my impression these places most investment businesses have a lot smart people who work for them And they see a lot of different businesses and so, they learn.

00:43:31: They have this kind of inherent... It's like free consulting!

00:43:35: So next time we'll speak about how do I manage for children?

00:43:37: A family in the business?

00:43:39: Yeah

00:43:39: happy to do that

00:43:40: but so far.

00:43:41: thanks a lot for your time

00:43:42: thank you.